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Security Operating Systems BSD

OpenBSD 3.1 Preorders (And Tunes) Available 63

Posted by timothy from the come-on-hum-along dept.
An Anonymous Coward writes: "For those bored out of their skull this morning, there are some interesting tunes available on the OpenBSD website to enlighten (frighten?) those cow-orkers. Also should be noted that the Canadian and European ordering site have the OpenBSD 3.1 3CD set available for pre-order, it's scheduled for release around 19 May."
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OpenBSD 3.1 Preorders (And Tunes) Available More

OpenBSD 3.1 Preorders (And Tunes) Available

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  • Death, taxes and regular OpenBSD releases.

  • CDs are sweet... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Tuzanor ( 125152 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @10:43AM (#3358427) Homepage
    The regular OpenBSD releases are nice. You get three CDs, a geeky audio track, stickers (nice artwork, BTW), and a nice, stable, secure OS. Can't afford $60? Well then just FTP install the damn thing, and if you can't do that, well you shouldn't be using OpenBSD, then. The official CDs are there to only support the project and nothing more.

    Its also not exactly hard to make bootable CDs. Theo copyrighted the layout and only forbad SELLING OpenBSD CDs. He never said you and your buds can't make their own and give away copies.

    • Its also not exactly hard to make bootable CDs. Theo copyrighted the layout and only forbad SELLING OpenBSD CDs. He never said you and your buds can't make their own and give away copies.

      That's not quite right, according to what I was told by people on the OpenBSD team.

      I bought a copy of OpenBSD 3.0 and a t-shirt (the one with the Blowfish code on the back) because I wanted to support the OpenBSD team. I got the order in the mail and tried it out. I was surprised to learn there were stickers and a song included in the deal. Theo de Raadt's claim of copyright on the CD layout threw me—I thought it was Free Software where people could share with their friends. I learned you had to copy the data in a certain way using "[n]ormal dump, tar, cp operations" according to Wim Vandeputte who patiently answered my questions about making a copy for my friends. According to Vandeputte, you aren't allowed to use dd to make an ISO (the preferred format for sharing CD images over a network) and the FAQ's the ISO portion [openbsd.org] say a similar thing (I asked de Raadt about my concerns but his answers weren't as clear as I had hoped). The hinge issue is not selling copies, it's distributing copies that duplicate the allegedly copyrighted layout (I'm still not sure if such a copyright is valid). This copyright isn't mentioned anywhere on the OpenBSD 3.0 documentation that came with my copy.

      de Raadt's copyright only hinders people who are trying to help him and his project. I bought OpenBSD 3.0 and the Blowfish t-shirt (the one with the Blowfish code on the back) because I wanted to help the project. If I wanted to get a copy of the discs at no charge, I could have downloaded and burned the ISOs that are already out there. de Raadt doesn't need to cajole people into contributing to the project by claiming a copyright on the discs' layout and restricting duplication to force a different layout.

      I ultimately decided I wasn't going to help someone make it harder for me to share with my friends. I'll avoid OpenBSD and recommend something else to everyone, like Debian GNU/Linux, which I'm currently using. I'll be happy to reassess OpenBSD should the situation change (including going back to OpenBSD and buying releases as I had planned), but sharing freely is important to me and my friends.

      I understand that the OpenBSD project needs money to keep the project moving ahead and I'm happy to give OpenBSD money, but I'm not going to pay for hassle. Their FAQ says "If for some reason you want to download a CD image, try searching the mailing list archives for possible sources." so they know the images are out there and they know de Raadt's layout copyright isn't preventing anyone from illegally sharing images. It seems unwise to me to hinder people who pay for official copies. These people most likely pay because they are looking to help the project; they will continue to pay for the CDs if the CDs are fully legally copyable. These are not the people to aggravate. In the end, I decided I will give my money to other Free Software efforts that don't hassle me when it comes to sharing.

      • de Raadt's copyright only hinders people who are trying to help him and his project.

        If you want to help him out, send him another $30 and give that new copy to your friend.

        OpenBSD is Theo's job. Think about that one for a bit. Sure, he could always do consulting, but then he wouldn't be working on OpenBSD. Ditto for service and support or anything else you can think of. In order for his job to bring in enough revenue to pay his wages, he has to sell something. That something happens to be an official CD set.
        • If you want to help him out, send him another $30 and give that new copy to your friend.

          And place my friend in a position where she can't legally share copies easily? No thanks, that's not being a good friend. For me and my friends, sharing is a big part of the relationship. We are strong proponents of selling Free Software [gnu.org] and a big part of that means understanding the "Free" in Free Software refers to freedom, not price; we should be allowed to share software with each other if we want to without hassle. Most Free Software gives us the opportunity to do that without jumping through hoops like reconstructing discs with a different layout than the layout de Raadt claims a copyright on.

          OpenBSD is Theo's
          job. Think about that one for a bit.

          I don't have to think about it one bit—like you said, (placing the emphasis elsewhere to illustrate my point) "OpenBSD is Theo's job." not my job. It is not my responsibility to make sure Theo de Raadt (or anyone else involved with OpenBSD) makes any money with OpenBSD.

          In order for his job to bring in enough revenue to pay his wages, he has to sell something. That something happens to be an official CD set.

          You don't read very carefully. Nowhere did I object to paying for OpenBSD. This should have been obvious to you, for if I had such an objection, I never would have bought OpenBSD 3.0 in the first place. The assistance I want to offer cannot be had at the price of my ability to easily share, therefore I have switched to another operating system.

          As I made clear before, I understand why de Raadt and the rest of the OpenBSD team sell discs and swag. It's the same reason why they don't distribute ISOs of OpenBSD discs. But they should not put a barrier to sharing in my way. Their barrier only impedes paying customers like me who abide by copyright law (even going so far as to take it on faith that de Raadt's CD layout copyright is valid) and won't share what we're not allowed to share. Since de Raadt's license on the CD layout prevents me from easily sharing with my friends, I choose not to pay to be hassled. My friends and I most recently chose Debian GNU/Linux [debian.org] where sharing and donations [debian.org] are encouraged.

      • Nothing prevents you from making your own ISO image and giving it away or even selling it. You just can't take the lazy way out and make bit-for-bit copies of the distribution CD's.

        So, install mkisofs and go at it. You might even learn something. Saying you "can't share it easily" is a confession of laziness or incompetence, or both. (Another word that comes to mind is "ingratitude.")

        -Ed
        • (Another word that comes to mind is "ingratitude.")

          The OpenBSD team doesn't ask for gratitude, they ask for money and they ask for everyone to act in accordance with Theo de Raadt's claimed copyright on the CD layout. I have provided both.

          • The OpenBSD team doesn't ask for gratitude, they ask for money and they ask for everyone to act in accordance with Theo de Raadt's claimed copyright on the CD layout. I have provided both.

            Any moron can download as many or as little in terms of supported platforms, from the OpenBSD ftp site and then make bootable CD's from that.

            Not a problem in the eyes of any of the OpenBSD team, including Theo.

            The only thing he does'nt want, is for people to copy the CD's he has already provided as the official CD's. Big fucking shit.

            If you want to be sure that you're getting the most secure OpenBSD distro, then purchase the real CD's. ftp sites get hacked from time to time and copies of "official" CD's can be just about as trustworthy.

            I also use Debian, BTW.

            The team does NOT ask for money to download as much as you want from the ftp sites. Hell, they even provide floppy images to be used for making bootable CD's! They don't have to ask for gratitude, any moron can see that they deserve it. The copyrighted CD layout only applies to the offical CD's.

      • omfg, listen to yourself. You are a complete FSF hoar (the fact that you say the full "Debian GNU/Linux or capitalize free software enhances my judgement of this fact). You want to share among friends? Lend the CD to them. OpenBSD is not hurting themselves with this layout copyright. Because the people who wish to support them buy the CDs and the people who simply cannot afford it do FTP installs and accept the fact that they can't have cool stickers on their laptops or monitors.

        OpenBSD is free. Not this free as in speech or beer RMS bullshit, but free as in no money and you can do what you please with it. If you cannot understand this then we don't want you as part of our community anyways.

        • I also forgot to mention that Theo has said on many occasions that you can grab the OpenBSD files from the FTP (or whatever) site and make bootable CDs from them.

          But it doesn't matter, we are preaching the gospel to a deamon when it comes to explaining these things to gnu people.

      • That's not quite right, according to what I was told by people on the OpenBSD team.

        The layout of the official CD images are copyright Theo de Raadt. There is a copyright on the back of my 2.8 CD case and I beleive I saw these on each case from 2.5 on (when I started using OpenBSD).

        The official CD's tend to have many supported architectures on them and some discs can boot from multiple architectures. Theo would have to have gone to a little trouble to achieve this and I don't see how preventing people from just selling exact copies of the official CD's somehow hurts the community.

        If all you use is OpenBSD i386, then just ftp/wget/rsync the i386 tree and then burn your bootable i386 CD. It's real easy and the download for i386 (3.0) is just 120MB, not including source. Or just ftp install it.

        I download macppc and i386 to get the latest versions as quick as possible, but I also purchase CD's and soon a bunch of shirts.

        So he does'nt want people distributing copies of the official CD's. Big deal. People who want to run OpenBSD on TEN different platforms can buy the CD's.

        People like myself, who want to support this great project, can always just purchase stuff from the team.

        Theo is not hindering anyone.

        • Theo would have to have gone to a little trouble to achieve this and I don't see how preventing people from just selling exact copies of the official CD's somehow hurts the community.

          Debian goes to some trouble to produce multiple systems for multiple machines too. Debian needs contributions and cooperative development help as well. But Debian allows people to copy official ISOs (and sell them). I'm not interested in selling any copies of either, just sharing them at no charge with friends. Neither production effort nor financial need are revealing hinges for this issue.

          If all you use is OpenBSD i386, then just ftp/wget/rsync the i386 tree and then burn your bootable i386 CD.

          The number of platforms supported and the FTP/wget/rsync availability are completely besides the point. I realize functionally equivalent duplicates are possible and I know how to make them. I'm interested in sharing an exact duplicate with my friends, not a functional equivalent.

          People who pay for the official OpenBSD and abide by Theo de Raadt's layout copyright are the ones who cannot share copies of official OpenBSD discs with friends. These people could obtain ISOs online (as per the FAQ) but they choose to help the project instead. It seems ironic to me that only the people who are trying to help cannot make this kind of copy to share. With OpenBSD, unlike Debian, those who cooperate are under a limit that those who violate are not.

          I don't think paying OpenBSD users need to be restricted from producing this copy. They are the ones who have demonstrated they want to give. I understand the need for money, there is no need to review that. I am among those computer users happy to give money to support Free Software efforts. As a member of the Free Software community I maintain that financial need should not interfere with my software freedom.

          People don't like being limited like this when we're talking about audio CDs, DVDs, or e-books. They want to share their legally obtained data with their friends. I don't like it either, so I don't pay the publisher to get audio CDs, and I have never bought a DVD or an e-book. Similarly, I will not buy official OpenBSD. I have switched to Debian because Debian lets me copy the official disc ISOs and burn copies for my friends.

          Please read carefully the extent of my comparison; I am not saying these products are all the same. I am aware proprietary products are very much unlike OpenBSD in most respects. The one respect in which they are the same is the restriction from producing an identical copy of the disc for a friend.

          I am eager to contribute to Free Software causes regardless of their focus. I want to encourage Free Software development and sales. But I want software freedom in exchange.

          • All you've made clear is your willingness to stretch a point beyond all reasonableness.

            Theo is merely exercising the right that all BSD folk assume: that you can take the BSD code and make a product out of it and sell it for whatever you like. Of course, the code itself remains unencumbered, so someone else can take it and make a product out of it and give it away, or sell it for a different price, perhaps after changes or additions. They just can't exactly duplicate Theo's organization ("compilation" is the legal term, I believe) or packaging -- his "product."

            BSD and GNU folks can argue all day over their respective ideas of freedom, and over which model is more "free." I don't want to argue that issue here (I frankly don't think it can ever be effectively settled), but merely point out that you're making a distinction that BSD doesn't consider valid. And that's why your argument just doesn't have much traction here, although in the GNU/Linux world it may.

            -Ed
            • ...but merely point out that you're making a distinction that BSD doesn't consider valid.

              You don't speak for all BSD users. Also you pointedly said my view was unreasonable. Nothing you've said points out how my view is unreasonable, what you've said is what I already know: that my view is different from the opinion some posters here. I appreciate your contribution to the conversation, but a difference of opinion does not imply a lack of reason.

          • With OpenBSD, you have choices. Install via ftp for free, download one or many platforms to burn as bootable CD's, purchase official CD's, etc.

            If you're friends can't figure out how to get or burn a bootable CD for their arch or install from ftp, maybe they ought to be looking at Mandrake Linux or something.

            I love Debian, but I also hold 4 years secure in much higher regard than 4 days secure.

            They're a team that gets little attention compared with Linux, so they need some sales to support them. If Theo wants to distribute some Copyrighted CD's and you don't like it, then just don't buy them! But please don't complain about it. He's well within his rights to do it and you ought to be happy that you can get unofficial CD's, ftp downloads and installs, etc.

          • The number of platforms supported and the FTP/wget/rsync availability are completely besides the point. I realize functionally equivalent duplicates are possible and I know how to make them. I'm interested in sharing an exact duplicate with my friends, not a functional equivalent.

            Why an exact duplicate?

            I'm serious. What the fsck does it matter if the bits are all in the same position?

  • My experiences with Windows XP Professional (Score:1, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I am a Computer Information Systems Professional [devry.edu] at a major Fortune 500 corporation. Very recently the head of our IT department decided that we were going to switch every one of our networks over to Windows XP Professional. We had previously been running OpenBSD on all our quad processor Xeons. Some of them had had uptimes approaching a year! My personal favourite, Gerbil, had been running without a reboot for three years.

    One day one of those Microsoft shills that you often read about on the Register [theregister.co.uk] came by for a visit. I grew very suspicious about what was going on when my boss and the Microsoft representative walked by my desk, and entered the server room. I could hear muffled voices through the closed door. The Microsoft representative was asking what we were running on our servers! My worst fears had come true. I sat at my desk for the rest of the day, silently awaiting the bad news. The news did not come until the next day. It was worse than I had feared. We were to be a Microsoft only shop from that day on! I could not believe it. The Microsoft representative had told my boss that the operating and support costs would actually go down. And my boss had fully bought into it, hook, line, and sinker.

    Tough times hit our company in the last month, and we were forced to lay off a few of the less experienced IS/IT workers. One of them took this rather hard. As a last minute attempt at corporate sabotage, he decided to change all of the Computer Administrator passwords on a few of the XP Professional boxes sitting around in the server room. This caused absolute havoc, as Dell had failed to send along administrator passwords for the new boxes. Our company could not make use of these computers for three days. It took Dell that long to get us the administrator passwords. It is strictly because of Microsoft's poor implementation of a multi-user computing environment that our company lost three days of productivity.

    Needless to say, I had our quad Xeons back running OpenBSD by the end of the week. Gerbil is back on its way to another glorious 3 years of uptime.

  • Animal husbandry (Score:3, Funny)

    by david duncan scott ( 206421 ) on Wednesday April 17, 2002 @10:57AM (#3358508)
    Would you guys please stop orking those poor cows?
    • Would you guys please stop orking those poor cows?

      Interestingly enough, whenever I see "coworkers" I think "cow orkers." Apparently, both "coworkers" and "co-workers" are valid, but I always use the latter as the former displeases my eye. Can't figure out a reasonable explanation for the preference.

      • Well, apparently Timothy agrees with you, although he opts to make it explicit.

        One of the reasons I read The New Yorker is their insistence that the act of working together is "coöperation" (hope that renders right), rather than cooperation or co-operation.

  • Anything the commercial OS vendors could come up with : )

    I've got a graaaphics piiiipe
  • The songs are cute though.

  • 3.1? (Score:1)

    by sulli ( 195030 )
    I'm waiting for OpenBSD 3.11 for Workgroups!
  • Netcraft confirms: *BSD is dying

    Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered *BSD community when recently IDC confirmed that *BSD accounts for less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

    You don't need to be a Kreskin [amdest.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood. FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers.

    Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

    OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

    Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

    All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

    Fact: *BSD is dead

    • what is OS-X based on again?
    • Fact is, you're full of it. BSD will always be there for firewalls, file+print servers and other network applicances. Hell, I've seen *BSD operating systems used nearly everywhere from large postscript printers to spectrum analyzers to factory floor automation.

      Better get to like it, because BSD wont ever go away, it'll be laughing at you from within your company's phone system at work, it'll be lurking in the diagnostic system the car mechanic connects to your car, it'll be sneering at you from within a self-ticketing machine at the airport, it'll be all around you simply because it's a stable and mature operating system anybody can use it to base their products on, free and without license hassles!

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