Announcing: Slashdot Deals - Explore geek apps, games, gadgets and more. (what is this?)

Thank you!

We are sorry to see you leave - Beta is different and we value the time you took to try it out. Before you decide to go, please take a look at some value-adds for Beta and learn more about it. Thank you for reading Slashdot, and for making the site better!

SDF Punted, Due to DDOS

Hemos posted more than 11 years ago | from the kicking-them-offline dept.

BSD 143

bullshizzle writes "The longest running Public Access UNIX System (SDF, running BSD) est. 1989 had their services terminated abruptly by NWLink because of a DDoS attack. Termination was carried out immediately without prior notification, which violates their contract (page1, page2). Complaints can be filed to the Washington State Attorney General's Office by filling out this simple form conveniently located online. You can follow the story at lonestar.org." While still bad, I've been corrected - SDF was *not* the longest running public access Unix - ArborNet (Located right here in my town) has been around for at least a number more years.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

public access (0)

hfastedge (542013) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203142)

like free shell account??

Re:public access (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203185)

You're quick, aintcha?

Re:public access (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203501)

Yes. I joined up when i heard about it in 99 and really cut my teeth on UNIX there, in spite of having been exposed to UNIX at least a year earlier. What makes SDF so great is that there is a real community of users who have their own chat app, their own "message board" app, all inside the shell. It reminded me of the community on the BBSes of old. Stephen (the sysadmin) regularly participates in user discussions and the opinions of the users help shape the direction of the system. In just the past few years i've seen it grow from a single system running Linux/i386 to seven or eight networked NetBSD/Alpha boxes with a user-built MUD, virtual hosting, special IRC bot accounts, all kinds of things. People who have been there since 1989 have seen it grow from SysV UNIX to 386BSD to Linux, on a dozen architectures.

This is nightmare for some of us regular users. I log on every day and rely on it for all my email, for my web page, for ICQ, for hundreds of personal files... SDF is my all-purpose scratchpad, and my $HOME contains so many little text files and projects i've worked on in the past four years. Some of the users have paid-for virtual host accounts and run business websites hosted on SDF. All these people are losing their business, their sites are inaccessible... It's a sad, sad day. I only recall one time in the past four years SDF has been down for longer than a few hours, and i believe that was due to a DDoS attack while they were located in Texas, and just before they moved from Linux to NetBSD.

*sigh* Some people just don't get it :-(

alison at sdf.lonestar.org

Re:public access (1)

the way, what're you (591901) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205432)

alison at sdf.lonestar.org

Hey, I tried to respond to you via email but it doesn't seem to be going through...

Re:public access (1)

rark (15224) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206384)

eh. This might have been a joke, in that case, just ignore this. Sometimes I have a hard time telling...

if not, that's because sdf.lonestar.org is down, which is the entire point of this bruhaha.

damn them, my primary email is through sdf too.

Re:public access - Not the oldest (1)

Mr. CBBS (12562) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205095)

Probably a nice system, but no where NEAR the oldest. http://chinet.com was started in 1982 with m-net following soon afterward.

Re:public access - Not the oldest (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5205324)

I think it was correctly stated on www.lonestar.org that SDF was one of the oldest and longest serving of its kind.

Re:public access - Not the oldest (1)

howardjp (5458) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205582)

Except Chinet went Unix after M-Net went up. NATCH!

Sharing our affection and appreciation... (1)

Lokinator (181216) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206512)

Now, it'd just be morally wrong to go on a crusade to carefully inform the world of what we think of NWLinks actions, Quality of Service, or other issues we have with them....w/o contacting them first to share our love and affection..


5th post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203145)


Re:5th post? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5205146)

No, it wasn't running NT.

Check your links (-1, Redundant)

johnkp (178178) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203149)

From the submissions form [slashdot.org] :
Are you sure you included a URL? Didja test them for typos?

I seem to have a problem with the link to http://sdf.lonestar.org


Easy to get rid of a company you don't like (2, Interesting)

Zeinfeld (263942) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203150)

Looks to me as if NWLink set an idiotic precedent. Someone attacks your site, they yank the plug.

The problem I have with the stories is that they are very brief, only giving one side. One wonders if there was more history here.

Bye bye, Slashdot! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203221)

Oh, man. I hope the recent DDoS attacks against Slashdot result in THIS site getting pulled.

What will michael do when he's unemployed? We all know CmdrTaco's coding skills suck, so he'll just turn into a bum... but I bet he'll still complain about SPAM.

history (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203544)

the man is always trying to shut us down because we are freedom and the man cant stand freedom.

Re:Easy to get rid of a company you don't like (3, Informative)

innate (472375) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204754)

Doug Palin, owner of NWLink, posted his explanation to the Lonestar message board (I won't Slashdot it, you can find it yourself).

NWLink (aka Pacifier aka Europa) has tens of thousands of customers here in the Northwest, including me, and the DoS effectively shut down their entire customer base -- 3 times over the past 3 weeks.

Either they were going to get complaints from one customer, lonestar.org, or they were going to get complaints from thousands of other customers (many of whom they had to pay monetary damages to make up for the loss of service). I can put up with my Internet access being cut off once, twice, but the 3rd time it happens I'm going to seriously consider switching providers. NWLink did what they had to do to save most of their customer base.

You're missing the point (1)

StupidKatz (467476) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205439)

The point was, SDF was cut off without adequate and/or written notice. If NWLink knew that the attacks on SDF were causing problems three weeks prior to this, then the very least NWLink could have done was provided notice.

NWLink certainly owes SDF an apology, at the very least.

more history (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204856)

.. like their backup generator failing to kick in, UPS/battery back-up systems being sorely inadequate and unable to handle the slightest brown-outs, a cable being mysteriously unplugged (in the secure datacenter), and various networking issues; like some testing or maintenance somewhere upstream, to "Oh It's A DDoS", and then internal routing problems at the new location (delaying the return of the SDF online after the move requested by them).
Thanks NWLink, as an indirect customer, it will be my pleasure to spread the word of your top-notch services.

Re:more history (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5205336)

It is true that NWLINK has had many issues with routing and power problems. SDF may have just been the scapegoat. A post was made elsewhere that perhaps NWLINK's does not have the technical expertise nor the staff to do anything else but pursue uptime.

Re:Easy to get rid of a company you don't like (1)

MrLint (519792) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206614)

They are asking that people not harass NWLink. Sound like to me that NWLink needs a good set of pissed off user harassment. If it is in fact true that DDoS for 3 weeks caused outages on their network then they need to harden their network. Do they really think that pulling 1 host is going to bestow on them magic fairy power to keep away bad people?

I think an idiot check is in order over there.

hmmm (1)

Bruha (412869) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203153)

Got Net?

Seriously I never knew this existed :(

Now I want to check it out :(

Doh! (-1, Flamebait)

Some Bitch (645438) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203155)

Assuming it can't have been slashdotted already (like seconds after posting) what the yellow rubbery fuck is the point of posting a link to a server that's no longer on the net?

BSD is dying! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203156)

It seems to me that BSD is dying!

Law suit? (2)

enigma32 (128601) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203159)

Failing to understand how exactly the ownership of this public server is setup, I'm wondering if the owning body will be suing over the breach of contract? Or will something along the lines of the EFF be taking up the battle?

I can't think of any reasonable circumstances prior to this that I've heard of a host cutting your connection just because of one incident without talking first...

Can you say "lawsuit"? (0, Interesting)

john.r.strohm (586791) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203160)

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, and I do not play one on TV. Having said that, based on a quick read of the contract, NWLink is on very shaky legal grounds, and SDF looks to have a very solid case against them.

Re:Can you say "lawsuit"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203229)

Disclaimer: You're also an ass. You're not a lawyer. You gave the article a "quick read".

And your grand decision? Very shaky legal grounds.

Thanks. Simple, yet powerful. Your post was about as constructive as... well, this one.

Re:Can you say "lawsuit"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204066)

Disclaimer: Bitch, shut the fuck up. You don't have anything to add, so don't even talk. Just go die, we won't miss you.

Re:Can you say "lawsuit"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204803)

They had to decide which was cheaper: settling a lawsuit from SDF -- which they have a pretty good chance of winning by the way, since the contract undoubtedly stipulated the right to disconnect a customer if the customer's site was causing damage to their network -- or paying the potentially thousands of claims from their other customers who lost Internet access due to the DDoS.

Denial of Service Attack? (3, Funny)

gunnk (463227) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203167)

NWLINK pulled SDF based off the fact that SDF was attacked by an outside hacker??? That's the kind of stupid stunt that invites a REAL denial of service attack:

The Slashdot Effect

Who can blame them? (1)

TracerJPN_USMC (623396) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203168)

Why is this such a horrific event? First it is the responsibility of the admins of the access provider to shut down access to the attackers. But if they don't do it.. why is it bad if someone upstreams kills all there access? If it stops a large scale DDoS attack.. it would be a good thing. Or maybe i've been drinking too much bacardi 151.

Re:Who can blame them? (2, Insightful)

SN74S181 (581549) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203320)

This wasn't a case of the attackers being hosted by SDF. They were attacked from the outside by some third party, and their provider unplugged them as a result.

This is similar to: if I wanted to shut down a local unpopular political organization's bookstore, so I picketed and made noise and made things unpleasant out in front of the bookstore, and the result was that the bookstore's lease was revoked by the owner of the building.

I don't understand this. (-1, Troll)

Krapangor (533950) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203172)

*BSD supporters always claim that their system is more reliable, stable, secure and handles load better than Linux/ Windows XP.
But if this is true then any *BSD server should be immune to such hacker DOS attacks.
So why had the system to be shut down by the ISP ?

Re:I don't understand this. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203214)

have you ever heard the word "bandwith"?

Re:I don't understand this. (2, Informative)

ActiveSX (301342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203231)

I believe their *network connection* was cut, not the machine itself. Bandwidth is not immune to DDoS attacks.

(uugh, IHBT)

Re:I don't understand this. (1)

ActiveSX (301342) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203248)

Well, I went ahead and RTFA, and it turns out that the machine *was* shut off, but it sounds like it would have happened no matter what the OS.

Re:I don't understand this. (1)

silas_moeckel (234313) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203479)

Well apparently you have figured out that a good DOS attack can flood the box with packets effectivly flooding out the valid incomming packets you need something like local QOS to fix this and it has to be set up correctly.

Next step is the switch in front again dependant on the type of switch it may have problems with a DOS attack as far as management goes.

The router above That may hav it's wan links flooded effectivly edging out valid traffic again and dependant on the router type taking up enormous ammounts of CPU time.

Then there are all the upstreams. When you buy bandwith from some local provider like they have they dont have the capacity to deal with the attack nessicarily and at minimum it may be degrading there network.

The only good solution to fix these things is source address verification from ALL ISP's (ok not happening any time soon) and oh that breaks mobil IP and some multi homes sites even the cheasy multiple DSL and cable modem setups for more bandwith and reliability configs.

when i sleep. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203177)

i have a small cock, but huge balls. sometimes i insert my balls into her instead of dick.

Their forum (5, Informative)

Some Bitch (645438) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203180)

They have a temporary forum [lonestar.org] for discussion (top comment atm is about making the front page at /.).

Re:Their forum (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203255)

Why do people always do that? Most forums are not prepared for the well-seasoned crap floods, javascript pop-ups and goatse inline images of the slashdot crowd and it only serves to piss off site and forum admins. If someone really wants to get in touch with the owners of the site in question, they'll do it themselves without your help and without subjecting to an onslaught of gay pr0n.

slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203182)

argh, anyone got a mirror?

I dont see the mian concern here, I blame MSFT anyway, look at their share prices, I hate them

Re:slashdotted (1)

Some Bitch (645438) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203241)

The sdf.lonestar.org link isn't slashdotted, that's the server that's had it's link terminated. Don't ask me why the link was included in the writeup...

Sorry Won't Fly. (5, Interesting)

linuxdoctor (126962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203186)

According to the copy of the agreement, "Northwest Linux may terminate the Agreement at any time and for any reason by prividing written notice of termination and refunding a pro rata portion of fees paid by Customer to Northwest Link for servies not yet rendered."

It doesn't say "prior written notice" but simply "written notice." That means that they can pull the plug on you at any time and tell you why afterwards.

It's interesting that the previous sentence says "either party" can terminate only for breaches of the contract that are not corrected within 15 days. In reality that only applies to Customer since the next sentence authorizes Northwest Link to do whatever it feels like doing.

Anyway, we only have half the story. It would be nice to see what Northwest Link has to say.

Tough luck.

Re:Sorry Won't Fly. (1)

linuxdoctor (126962) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203206)

Damn all those spelling mistakes. I should get a new perscription for my glasses.

Boo hoo.

Re:Sorry Won't Fly. (1)

crush (19364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204366)

IANAL and you may well be right, but there are things such as non-enforceable contracts. It requires going before a court to show that the terms of the contract are not reasonable under tort law or something like that.

Re:Sorry Won't Fly. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204650)

... may terminate the agreement ... by providing written notice ...
[Token 'IANAL',] but I read that to mean they can drop service just as fast as they can deliver that WRITTEN notice (which to my knowledge was NOT done).
Immediately prior to this in fact, NWLink requested the servers be relocated to a new site (with more available bandwidth and supposedly for the same price). Guess they changed their minds.

Re:Sorry Won't Fly. (5, Informative)

innate (472375) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204847)

Northwest Link has this to say:

Posted to SDF message board by the owner of NWLink:

For starters let me say that I fully support SDF and what they are doing
as a long time net user and admin of public access unix boxes. Having been
the victim of multiple attacks over the past 15 years I know how much of a
pain they are.

Over the past 3 weeks SDF has been attacked 3 times that we can document,
we believe that one more network related issue was directed towards them
as well but we were not able track down the destination while it was occurring.

Yesterday morning as in the other events we shut down SDFs port and had the
IP blocked at each of our backbone providers (UUNet, Verio %26 ELI). This effectively
shutdown our entire customer base while the Distributed Denial of Service attack was
under way and until we had the ip blocked. During and Following these attacks we
receive notice from our large line customers that have Quality of Service provisions
in their contracts that they want credits.

These credits are somewhat substantial and which we are contractually obligated to
provide. We have issued over $30K in credits over the past 3 weeks when these attacks
occur. This coupled with the customers that cancel because of their inability to
use the service they are paying for has caused more then a little harm to my business.

Steven has full access to the equipment at this time, we are not holding it hostage
as the webpage page maintains. In fact we suggested he go to Semaphore directly, this
is where we have our network equipment in Seattle. This was following a move on Thursday
from our old Bellevue location. He acknowledged to me in a phone call a few minutes ago
that he is working with them to get a contract signed. It is going to cost more, however
I suspect the price that he is paying to them is more then fair for his bandwidth usage.
What NWlink was charging was an excellent deal for the bandwidth being used.

Steven explained to me that he was quite surprised by the direction this had taken when
I spoke to him a short time ago. He knew what we did and why we did it. I to am sorry
to see any customer go but had no choice in this matter to keep our other customers
functional who pay the bills and salarys of my staff.

Doug Palin

That is "without notice" surely? (1)

midgley (629008) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205109)

IANAL but notice does imply being told first, not after disconnection.

Mirror (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203189)

You can find some of SDF's archived artwork at Adobe Studio [adobe.com]

Dissapointing to see (1)

Neophytus (642863) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203191)

SEMAPHORE will cost SDF more than double its current rent, however, the technical team seem much more willing to help us. Please watch here [lonestar.org] for updates.
A breach of contract, a new ISP, and couple the costs for a public service that has been running for fifteen years all because of a dumb DoS attack. As they say, many people have come to rely on SDF. This is one of the dumbest stunts that I have seen an ISP pull in a long time and I hope that NWLink [nwlink.com] have apropriate and successful legal action taken against them.

Re:Dissapointing to see (1)

glenstar (569572) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205051)

I was an original NWLink customer and they have always been, um, interesting to deal with. A business associate of mine was suddenly cut off from his NWL account for "suspicion of hacking" for trying to ping addresses in the NWL address range. I dropped them in '97 and have never looked back.

As for Semaphore, they are *great* people. They were probably the first hardcore corporate data provider in Seattle. Sure, they are expensive, but in my opinion well worth it.

What a shame! And who's to blame? (5, Interesting)

teqo (602844) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203193)

I have got my SDF public shell access at lonestar about two years ago, and I love it! It's (almost, because they required people to send in a buck to show they seriously want to use it and don't create lots of fake accounts) free, they have nice services, rely mostly on their users' affection and willingness to donate money or equipment to them, and you can upgrade for some money to use more features... I hope they will manage to migrate to their new hoster...

What puzzles me is that NWLink seemd to have disconnected SDF because they fell preyto some DDoS'ing, they were not actively involved in some (D)DoS towards other sites, at least that's how I read the announcement!

Consequently, this DDoS might have been one of the most successful one reported, since it not only hogged their connection and thus technically Dos'sed them for a while, but this led to some organizational DoS carried out by NWLink!

How can they dare blaming the victim? And how can they dare putting all the consequences (that is, disconnection) onto the victim as well? Is this legal? Is this good practice? And: Does it help stop the DDoS towards SDF? Okay, the target host(s) is/are down, but the packets might rush to the dangling patch cable end anyway, crossing NWLink's infrastructure...

All in all: Thanks to the DDoS people attacking a nice and free public service! :( (Not that I am some DDoS fan of any kind, but aren't there much more promising targets out there, both in terms of popularity, evilness and challenging huge trunks? Or did some script kiddies just got their shell accounts revoked, and now they felt like stomping their virtual feet? I hope you have learnt to deal better with your frustration by the age of 12...)

And big thanks to NWLink for dealing with a customer's problem in a great and professional way by supporting a DDos through fully shutting down services!

"Where do you wanna go today / Somewhere you could never take me"
-- Chumbawamba

This isn't the best news. (1)

Rewtie (552738) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203215)

There's a little more to just losing access to a shell account. I happen to host my website and email with SDF. I've been without email since they pulled the plug. No email means I am not recieving job notifications, nor payment from clients.

NWLink (2, Informative)

po8 (187055) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204573)

I left NWLink [nwlink.com] DSL a couple of weeks ago over their mediocre uptime and high costs, especially bandwidth costs. They were down quite a few hours per month lately (that I noticed) and their tech support was not so good. They seemed to have a lot of router configuration problems: there were frequent router loops. This may have been partly due to their prime (only?) feed to most of the world being alter.net [alter.net] , which at least in this neck of the woods is quite slow and tangled. NWlink claimed at one point that they were just finishing up some big network reconfiguration, and things should get better: when things didn't seem to, that was the end for me. I should have waited to switch: it would be nice to dump them now in protest over their DDOSing of SDF :-).

I chose NWLink several years ago because at the time their prices were good, and my previous provider, NW Nexus [nwnexus.com] , had been bought out twice and become expensive and quite unreliable in the process. Now I'm with DSL Only [dsl-only.net] , and so far they seem great. ISP service is $18/month for 640/256 DSL, with no bandwidth charges, no restrictions on use, a static IP, and two mailboxes. It's been reliable so far, and they are direct to a local exchange that in turn is direct to my work and to Internet2, so ping times and bandwidth are excellent.

It would be nice to be done with ISP switches forever: maybe this is it. The other good news is that this was the easiest ISP switch so far: Qwest seems to have it figured out now, and it was completely routine.

FYI. As always, YMMV.

hi (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203198)

i fucked my teacher in the ass and got an A+ in biology. go figure.

This Just in! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203200)

In related news. sdf gets slashdotted and their service provider shuuts them down because they thougt it was a DDOS.

Why don't the police think of this? (5, Interesting)

pyramid termite (458232) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203205)

Clearly, if they started arresting the victims of crime, crime would instantly stop as all the victims would be in jail and safe from the criminals out roaming the streets. It's just another example of how the online world is showing society new and innovative ways to solve serious problems.

Re:Why don't the police think of this? (1)

GigsVT (208848) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205283)

The police already do this. There have been numerous cases of rape and domestic violence against women, usually minorities, and when the woman calls the cops, they search her house and find drugs, and arrest her rather than the person perpetrating the crime.

Re:Why don't the police think of this? (1)

bninja_penguin (613992) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206674)

Well, here in the Homeland, we've got a brand new department of security that views everyone as a criminal. That way, instead of worrying about protecting the innocents or victims, they can just bust us all.

Link for the online form ? (0)

[ella] (122929) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203212)

Hi, the document with the online form [wa.gov] has been removed by the server

(I assume that Slashdot and the poster did check this link before...)

Re:Link for the online form ? (1)

SmoothTom (455688) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204832)

I just gave the "form" link a try and got the complaint from the server, BUT when I backed up a level at the server and linked to it from one of THEIR (Washington state's) pages it worked fine ...

Looks like the server has been told to block /. ?


Re:Link for the online form ? (1)

virtig01 (414328) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205349)

I got the same. Also, did you notice that random character that appears after the sentance? Try refreshing the page a couple of times. Tried typing the address into a new browser window and got this: Not Found The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it. Just use the link on lonestar.org [lonestar.org] I guess...

TURN ON YOUR TV (-1, Offtopic)

AgentUSA (251620) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203213)

NASA loses contact with the Space Shuttle Columbia during landing.

more info. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203217)

The president of SDF can be found at on yahoo [yahoo.com]

why oh why (2, Interesting)

womby (30405) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203222)

at long last an ISP starts to take ddos sources seriously and then they throw the baby out with the bath water.

if my link was being used to host a ddos attack I would hope I could get notified of the problem and some assistance in fixing it.

to clean up the net we have to educate the users not move them somewhere else, though not for one second am I sugesting that these perticular admins needed educating but they did need notifying.

--required "I remember when"

years ago I was network admin in the UK for a company our exchange server was managed by the US office (the whole globes exchange services where US managed)

I realised that our server was an open relay and notified my director in the US and was told that it didnt matter because nobody would scan us why would anybody scan an advertising agency.

a quick install of snort on another box and a week later I had proof that we were being scaned.

still no action

a couple of weeks later our ISP sent us an official letter in telling us to fix the relay or be booted.

they could have booted us at any time but they did the right thing and warned us first.

the relay was fixed.

Re:why oh why (1)

womby (30405) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203243)

then I go away and start reading more about what happend and realise I was making a bad assumption.

it doesnt even seem like they were hosting a ddos they were the target.

bloody isp should get burnt down for the d/c now

Re:why oh why (1)

tunah (530328) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203695)

RTFA. They were *victim* to a DoS attack.

Re:why oh why (1)

womby (30405) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203759)

and a whole hour before you started your little rtfa shout I had appended the post to point out that I had re-read and had been mistaken

HOLY SHIT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203235)

The space shuttle Columbia just burned up on re-entry into earth. It's in pieces falling from the sky. TURN ON YOUR TV!


Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203284)

This was the first space shuttle flight to carry an Israeli astronaut. Could it be the work of anti-Zionist liberalist terrorists?

Parent poster is not joking (0, Offtopic)

handsomepete (561396) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203314)

ABC radio is reporting that some eyewitnesses claim to have seen flaming debris falling to the Earth and that the shuttle hasn't been heard from in an unusually long time. Here's [go.com] something to get you started. Whoever they're interviewing now is talking about investigating terrorism. We sure are f'ing paranoid these days. Now mod me down, please.

Re:HOLY SHIT (0, Offtopic)

Brandon30X (34344) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203387)

The pieces are falling in the Central/
North Texas region... Possibly in Dallas/Ft.Worth

Before everyone gets hung up on terrorism... (-1, Offtopic)

Some Bitch (645438) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203467)

On launch day, a piece of insulating foam on the external fuel tank came off during liftoff and was believed to have struck the left wing of the shuttle. Leroy Cain, the lead flight director in Mission Control, had assured reporters Friday that engineers had concluded that any damage to the wing was considered minor and posed no safety hazard.
Source: cnn.com [cnn.com]

shut up, we got real problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203598)

how many ghetto kids will die today?

Thoughts from a member... (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203388)

I have been a member of SDF for one and a half years, and I am very disappointed to see this piece of Internet history on the verge of becoming history. It has been a very successful form of what people have been calling the `digital commons' -- proving that the Internet can be something that commercial providers can never offer: a place in which to cooperate, make friends, help others... (sounds cheesy, but it's true)

Now, due to a couple of kiddies that wanted to prove their `skills', SDF has to go offline, leaving thousands of users unable to access their email and contact friends, and several more thousands unable to access Web and Gopher resources hosted on SDF... giving commercial providers like AOL just one more argument in their favour. They can afford lawyers to take care of shit like this... we can only depend on community leverage. I hope it will be plentyful. Damn. I wanna play netris on sdf....

You know my thoughts on this? (1)

Shadowclaw (646488) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203616)

You probably don't. So I'll tell you.

I woudn't be surprised if the DDOSers were in league with NWLink. Or maybe I'm just paranoid or something. Or maybe, as a member of SDF myself, I'm more than a little annoyed at this incidentr. It is SO WRONG.

Re:You know my thoughts on this? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204495)

I wouldn't be surprised if the DDOS never happened. NWLink won't give any information about the source of the supposed attacks.

Solution is obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203641)

We just need a list of other sites hosted by NWlink. Apply a DDoS against each customer, one at a time, and eventually they'll have no customers left.

Seriously though, their other customers ought to be warned that their contracts are meaningless.

M-Net? (1)

justinkim (513188) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203659)

Hasn't M-Net [arbornet.org] been around a whole lot longer than SDF? I remember dialing into M-Net (on a 300 baud acoustic coupler!) in 1983 when it was running System 3 on an Altos 68000.

Re:M-Net? (2, Informative)

jmsaul (209095) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205783)

Correct. M-Net went up under Unix in 1983. Chinet didn't go Unix until after that point, I think.

Both systems are still active, still public-access, and still run Unix -- so whichever one is oldest, it isn't SDF.

SDF was moving (3, Interesting)

Fencepost (107992) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203776)

The interesting thing about this is that SDF was down on Thursday for a scheduled move to a new location (still on NWLink, but a better facility) and simply never came back up. First it was delayed due to instability in NWLink's internal network, then apparently by just being disconnected.

Personally I find the timing suspicious - the move was originally scheduled for earlier in the week, then was delayed at NWLink's request, then when it actually happened "Oh, we're disconnecting you." Did they decide some time ago to get rid of those pesky SDF people and just try to make it look like an SDF problem instead of a NWLink disconnect?

Re:SDF was moving (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204599)

Could be. More likely with NWLink, they screwed up so bad they couldn't figure out how to make their connection work, so they pretended it was on purpose.

How to complain? (1)

stardeep (66237) | more than 11 years ago | (#5203900)

Is there a standard letter of complaint somewhere to send to the appropriate authorities? I don't have a clue as to what to say to whom and how, but I'd like to express my dismay at NWLINK's actions to someone in power. (I am in NL, by the way.)

Re:How to complain? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204300)

I'll be sending letters to NWLINK's customers.

If I wanted to simply block all of NWLINK's IP addresses, how would I go about that ?

despicable and unprofessional (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5203987)

email *to* Nwlink:
A customer of yours gets attacked and you drop their services with no warning? That is outright despicable. I manage my organization's firewalls. Internet attacks go on all the time, directed and undirected. Dealing with it that way, you won't have any customers both from nwlink.com turning them off and from the lost trust of your customers. If the information is incorrect, you should post that information on your website.

Trying to link the WA consumer complaint form (2, Informative)

crush (19364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204400)

produces this error. Is this a /. problem or a problem with their link?

Not Found
The requested object does not exist on this server. The link you followed is either outdated, inaccurate, or the server has been instructed not to let you have it. Please inform the site administrator of the referring page.

Re:Trying to link the WA consumer complaint form (2, Informative)

crush (19364) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204558)

Ah, it'd be nice if /. editors could correct that link, it should be: http://www.wa.gov/ago/consumer/forms/

For the lazy (was:Re:Trying to link the WA cons... (1)

mat catastrophe (105256) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206273)

If you need that in hypertext:

Complaint Form [wa.gov]

This kind of crap will continue (2, Insightful)

Qzukk (229616) | more than 11 years ago | (#5204463)

As long as its in the best interests of the bandwidth providers (who get mega cash for all these GBs) this kind of crap will never stop.

And guess what, its EASY to stop! Simply require the netork borders to perform filtering on packets crossing the border. If your cable modem is spewing out packets addressed from China, and you're in Florida, SOMETHING IS WRONG. These packets should have never gotten into the internet in the first place.

Suddenly, when spoofing is no longer possible, DoS doesn't seem like such a great idea. Even with botnets and crap for DDoS usage, if you can be tracked back from a single trojaned box, you'd have to be stupid to try.

Re:This kind of crap will continue (2, Informative)

RGRistroph (86936) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205859)

The "filter outgoing at border" mantra may apply to much of the current vandalism on the internet, but it's not going to stop it when administrators finally wise up and deal with it.

Here's a few links to the next level of annoyances:

There will be no tracking back from a single trojaned box.

*BSD is dying -- contract terminated! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5204567)

It is official; Netcraft now confirms: *BSD is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BSD community when IDC confirmed that *BSD market share has dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all servers. Coming on the heels of a recent Netcraft survey which plainly states that *BSD has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BSD is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last [samag.com] in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.

You don't need to be a Kreskin [amazingkreskin.com] to predict *BSD's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BSD faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BSD because *BSD is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BSD. As many of us are already aware, *BSD continues to lose market share. Red ink flows like a river of blood.

FreeBSD is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core developers. The sudden and unpleasant departures of long time FreeBSD developers Jordan Hubbard and Mike Smith only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: FreeBSD is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

OpenBSD leader Theo states that there are 7000 users of OpenBSD. How many users of NetBSD are there? Let's see. The number of OpenBSD versus NetBSD posts on Usenet is roughly in ratio of 5 to 1. Therefore there are about 7000/5 = 1400 NetBSD users. BSD/OS posts on Usenet are about half of the volume of NetBSD posts. Therefore there are about 700 users of BSD/OS. A recent article put FreeBSD at about 80 percent of the *BSD market. Therefore there are (7000+1400+700)*4 = 36400 FreeBSD users. This is consistent with the number of FreeBSD Usenet posts.

Due to the troubles of Walnut Creek, abysmal sales and so on, FreeBSD went out of business and was taken over by BSDI who sell another troubled OS. Now BSDI is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BSD has steadily declined in market share. *BSD is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BSD is to survive at all it will be among OS dilettante dabblers. *BSD continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BSD is dead.

Fact: *BSD is dying


CakerX (149266) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205103)

there goes my hosted immages, FUCKING A. I need a new fucking free shell provider now. Any ideas??


Mod parent down (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5205561)

Mod parent down as TROLL!!!!!

Northwest Link (3, Interesting)

chuckw (15728) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205157)

I used to have a dial-up account with Northwest Link circa 1998. They are quite possibly the rudest, most disorganized people I have ever worked with. They double billed me for the first three months of my service, and then they proceeded to bill me for 3 months of service after I cancelled my account.

I cancelled my account in mid 1999 because I got DSL. I received confirmation of this. Four months later I received a collection agency notice saying that I had not been paying my bill (on an account that I had cancelled). I responded with plenty of evidence that I had cancelled the account. The mailed response ignored any of my evidence and re-iterated the original claim. I finally called the NWLINK offices and talked to the NWLINK collections guy. I don't recall his name, but the collections guy sounded like the most crochety old man I had ever heard. I stated my case and his response was, "Pay your damn bill! We don't run a charity here!!!". It was as if he hadn't even heard a word I said, or as my father likes to say, "we were having two spearate conversations". I got the feeling that he thought I was some punk kid trying to scam NWLINK out of a few months of service.

I will never again do business with them. To those who have asked me about Internet Service Providers over the last 4 years, I have advised that they not do business with NWLINK either. I doubt I've made any impact on their bottom line, however I can assure you that the $75.00 they got out of me cost them at least ten customers. I mean really, all they had to do was treat me with a little respect regardless of who was right and who was wrong...

Re:Northwest Link (1)

Z4rd0Z (211373) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206897)

That's quite the opposite of my experience. About the same time ago, I had a dial-up account with them, and it was the most robust dial-up service I've ever experienced. They were also friendly to Unix using customers. Later, I switched to Speakeasy DSL. While waiting for the DSL connection, I used Speakeasy dial-up, and it was not as reliable as the NWLink account. But that's just my 2 cents, YMMV.

SDF (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5205751)

SDF has over 20,000 users including myself. I started using UNIX because of them. They are a non-profit organization. NWLINK obviously does no support non-profit organizations, even their customers. They told sdf they had to protect their customers. SDF was their customer.

Complaint form link (2, Informative)

lesterhv (125530) | more than 11 years ago | (#5205790)

The correct link is http://www.wa.gov/ago/consumer/forms/ [wa.gov] not the ./form/ that was in the original link.


Anonymous Coward | more than 11 years ago | (#5205798)

PEOPLE .. Please stop threatening NWLINK. Yes, they could have handled this situation better, but the point is they didn't and that isn't going to change. We need to look toward the future now. If any host can be shutdown like this, then no hosts are safe. I think the thread here should go to POSITIVE WAYS to do successful tracebacks so that DDoSing will stop for everyone. I don't want to see SDF become the scapegoat for this, it really doesn't solve anything for the long term. I've talked with the CEO of NWLINK and he is a nice guy, but he has his hands full as it is. Lets not look back and think of the future.

Stephen Jones
SDF Public Access UNIX System

Is there a right way to deal with a DDoS ?? (1)

moz25 (262020) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206487)

I'm curious... for NWLink, what would have been the right way for fending off the DoS attacks? Dropping their client in the hope that the kiddies will stop is a bit of a kludge. The existence of their business still depends on the mercy of anonymous criminals.

There appears to be a pretty big need for a form of accountability.. right now, you can get almost any small site/organization off the net, simply by flooding them and getting them to run up their ISP bill. What would be the appropriate course of action for victims to such attacks?

what a bad day (1)

nutznboltz (473437) | more than 11 years ago | (#5206962)

NY switches to 11 digit phone numbers.

The world loses another (virtual) PDP-10
twenex.org: No address associated with hostname
(That was part of SDF if you didn't already know)

8000 people die of AIDS as usual.

And the space shuttle doesn't make it back.

(I know I shouldn't begin sentances with and)

Can someone please explain... (0)

majestynine (605494) | more than 11 years ago | (#5207014)

Can someone please explain why this was put under the topic of "BSD", and why such a thing was even mentioned in the "article" by Hemos?

A DDOS attack is an attack on bandwidth, not an attack on an operating system.

If I was more cynical...wait I am more cynical: I think its just because either Hemos doesn't understand the difference, or more likely, just wants to jump at a chance to badmouth that other operating system [freebsd.org] that he knows is so much of a threat to their treasured linux.

Personally I don't think this story comes under the heading of "News that matters", and even if it was worthy, it should have been put under the 'Security' heading, not "BSD".

Perhaps we can get a new section for Denial of Services, or perhaps, a wider umbrella would be a 'teenage HaX0r' section where we can put DDOSs, Web Defacements and Case Mods all together. (That way, people who have lives can choose the option not to display any of that shit on the front page)

Thanks, majestynine.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?